Live with Gail Crider! (EP.24)
Last Updated
April 15, 2020
Work. Shouldn't. Suck. LIVE: The Morning(ish) Show with special guest Gail Crider, President & CEO, NAS. [Live show recorded: April 14, 2020.]
Guest: Gail Crider
Co-Hosts: Tim Cynova & Lauren Ruffin
Guest
GAIL CRIDER is President & CEO of NAS. She facilitates strategy, program design and organizational alignment to values. She consults on strategy, leadership, planning and governance. Gail was Vice President and COO for over a decade and was instrumental in our transition from the National Arts Stabilization Fund to National Arts Strategies and providing the range of services offered today.
Over the course of her career, Gail has been an entrepreneur, worked with a variety of nonprofit organizations and spent a decade in philanthropy. Prior to NAS, she was as a program officer for a private foundation where she worked on inner-city redevelopment and community building in Washington, D.C. Gail has also worked for the Arizona Commission on the Arts, Arena Stage, Shakespeare Theatre, the National Endowment for the Arts and Key Bank. She co-chaired the Community Development Support Collaborative in Washington, D.C., and has served as a senior fellow for the Center for High Impact Philanthropy at the University of Pennsylvania, on the audit committee for the National Assembly of State Arts Agencies and on grant panels for the Corporation for National Service (AmeriCorps), the National Endowment for the Arts and the Department of Treasury, CDFI Fund. She holds a B.S. in theater from Lewis and Clark College and continues to learn formally and informally through her work at NAS, including continuing education at Stanford University, Harvard Business School and University of Michigan – Ross School of Business.
Transcript
Tim Cynova:
Hi, I'm Tim Cynova, and welcome to Work. Shouldn't. Suck. LIVE: The Morning(ish) Show. On today's episode, Lauren Ruffin and I are joined by Gail Crider. Gail currently serves as the President and CEO of NAS, an organization dedicated to providing training and support for arts and cultural leaders. Over the years, NAS has partnered with leading schools and scholars around the world to deliver programs, like their Chief Executive Program, Creative Community Fellows and the Executive Program in Arts & Culture Strategy. This year, they launched the Leadership Coaches Training Program. They've created a handful of free online courses, including ones focused on leading innovation and inspiring and motivating teams. In addition to these in-person programs and online classes, their website is choke-full of tools, case studies, reading lists and reports.
Tim Cynova:
Outside of NAS, Gail has served as a Foundation Program Officer, working on redevelopment and community building in Washington, DC. She's worked for the Arizona Commission on the Arts, the NEA, and Key Bank. She co-chaired the Community Development Support Collaborative in Washington, and served as a senior fellow for the Center for High Impact Philanthropy at the University of Pennsylvania. And once, when Gail and I were attending an event, Justice Sonia Sotomayor snuck up behind us to say hello and thanked us for being there. Without further ado, Gail, welcome to the show.
Gail Crider:
Oh my gosh, it's a pleasure. It's a pleasure to be here, Tim and Lauren, really excited. And I remember that moment to this day, so clearly.
Lauren Ruffin:
I'm already distracted. We talked in fear about how easily distractable I am. Do you know Sonia Sotomayor?
Tim Cynova:
No.
Gail Crider:
We do not.
Tim Cynova:
We do not. But it was an event. I mean it was an event at the Supreme Court, so it wasn't totally out of the blue. And she was hosting it, and at one point in the evening, you're sitting around like event tables. And Gail and I are sitting next to each other and I feel this hand on my shoulder and I turned and it's Justice Sotomayor right there saying, "Thank you so much for being here. Really appreciate it." And we're like, "uh, yeah." So that was an amazing moment that Gail and I shared together.
Lauren Ruffin:
That is really, really cool. That legal nerd in me is like a little tingly. Okay. So Gail, I'm really excited to meet you. This is our first time talking. And you're in Arlington, but have the sort of bird's eye view or maybe not so high up, but a view of the field and everything that's happening nationally. So how's your community and what sort of themes are you hearing from people right now during the pandemic?
Gail Crider:
Wow, could answer that on different levels. I mean I live in a very dense neighborhood, and it's unusual, in the fact that it is highly dense, but we don't have any street lights, we don't have any alleyways. And so the whole social construct of the community is really interesting. And even in these times of social distancing, we get together out on our porch, on our stoops, to occasionally yell at each other from a reasonable distance. And that's really been a bright spot in life. To try and recreate that type of situation for our alumni, we've been hosting what we've been calling virtual hugs and inviting folks from previous years to come back together and talk about what's reality like these days, from both a emotional standpoint and from a leadership and kind of practical standpoint, what are they faced with? And we've gotten a whole range of responses there from leaders who are really networked. So if they have a very shared structure, probably somewhat similar to Fractured Atlas, they feel much more connected. And even though they're feeling extreme stress, they feel like it's shared to leaders that are in hierarchical structures, that are feeling even more isolated. And the stress levels are very high.
Gail Crider:
The other thing that we're noting, is that people are in this situation in very different circumstances. Some taking care of their elders, their children, their neighbors or friends. And so they may have much less time to devote to any kind of work situation, now that they're working from home. And so life is just so different. To others who have more time, it's running the gamut.
Lauren Ruffin:
Yeah. So Tim gave you a lovely bio, but how do you sort of usually introduce yourself and your work?
Gail Crider:
I, myself, I am the granddaughter of farmers and the daughter of a learning disability specialist. She was the first in the family to go to college. I'm curious and I'm persistent, and I'm the proud mother of a now 21-year-old who wants to change the world through politics.
Lauren Ruffin:
Oh.
Gail Crider:
That's how I introduced myself personally. Professionally, I am part of an amazing team that is everything from practical, creative, linear, nonlinear, they just represent such a wide variety of views and opinions. And I love that people bring their whole selves to any discussions we have, and so we have a lot of debate. We occasionally disagree, well we disagree and we occasionally agree. But it's a great space to be in as a leader, and in the shared leadership.
Tim Cynova:
What does it look like right now at NAS, work-wise? Because you were able to work remote before, so there was some flexibility in how you worked, although you have a physical office in Arlington. Have things changed a lot from taskable weeks work-wise? How do you communicate? What tools are you using? What new things are you finding to be useful? Not useful?
Gail Crider:
Well, I can say a resource for us has been your website. We actually, one of the things that we all did, what we flipped to completely virtual, is we posted all the resources for Fractured Atlas and Work. Shouldn't. Suck. So thank you for that.
Tim Cynova:
Thanks Gail.
Lauren Ruffin:
Yeah.
Gail Crider:
You're right, a lot of us travel. It's so strange not being on the road three out of four weeks in a month. But many of us travel, so we're used to working from home or remotely, but now all of us are working that way. And as I had mentioned before, we all have different circumstances. So we have from homeschooling to a newborn, in one of our households, to caring for family members. And so it's all different. So we've really had to adjust our collaborative routine. I think each of us have talked about having our own specific routine so that we know kind of when we're working and when we're not, which is different, it feels really different. And then for the collective, we talk about, we share those routines so we know when people are online and when they're not, when they're working and when they're not. And that's just shifted meetings for us.
Gail Crider:
We use zoom a lot. We're a Slack culture, well we don't Slack, but we are a Slack culture. Well maybe we do Slack sometimes. And so that's been helpful. We just started using Miro, the whiteboard app.
Lauren Ruffin:
Oh, yeah.
Gail Crider:
Yeah. So because we're flipping so many programs online or redesigning things, considering what things might look like in the next 12 to 18 months. So it's a great idea space for us because we think about design and we can share it with other partners and collaborators, and that's helpful.
Tim Cynova:
That's great. And this like dovetails perfectly with a question that just came in from one of our viewers. Which elements of your leadership development programs do you notice being most used and useful to your cohort in this moment? And how are you re-imagining your future programs as a result? Thank you for the question right off the bat here.
Gail Crider:
Thanks Andrew. It's interesting. So I mentioned the collaboration. We're part of a large collaboration that works in North Dakota, South Dakota and the native nations in that geography. And one of the collaborators is a Chief Executive Program alum. And we were talking the other day and she was mentioning how she still uses, there's certain tools that come up for her that are incredibly useful, and this particular one was around, is a problem adaptive or is it technical? It's HEIFETZ work. And so we're hearing that a lot from various folks through the virtual hugs about what's coming back to the forefront. Our pivot, in recent years, has really been about imagining and managing change. So those tools are pretty darn useful right now.
Gail Crider:
In terms of flipping programs or changing programs, two recognitions. One is that some things that were already on track where a group or a cohort has bonded, has met together physically, we kept the program. We just converted it to online because there was a real sense of wanting to get back together. Of course, we changed it. Nobody can stare at a screen for eight hours straight, but we've adapted the model. But what we found is that people wanted to really see each other and see what's going on in each other's lives and learn together, that that had an equalizing or a leveling experience for pupil. Creative Community Fellows is tougher. The individuals that typically apply to that program are going through so much stress and change right now. Many have lost their jobs, have lost their livelihood. And so we're looking at how better to support alumni, possibly doing more granting, which is part of that program and postponing the new Creative Community Fellows until we can really get our arms us and what's most useful for the community.
Lauren Ruffin:
In the same vein, earlier you mentioned strategic planning and sort of thinking 18 to 24 months out. How have you shifted sort of envisioning exercises that are always a part of strategic planning? I just feel like Tim talks a lot about the SCARF framework and certainty being a big one. And with there being so much uncertainty, do you find that, is the planning process blocked or do you feel like it's more generative right now?
Gail Crider:
We're living with such ambiguity and uncertainty, as you point out, Lauren. I think sometimes it depends on the day and even the hour and what people are faced with. And when you can make a shift, I think, when you first start living through, depending on the level of crisis or what you're faced with, it's pretty moment-to-moment. But eventually the horizon opens up and so what we've been trying to figure out is how both for us, for our team, how to clap eyes on the horizon, how to look up and keep looking up without being disoriented. And then how we can make space standing together with others that are thinking about re-imagining the future, how we can use our experience and bring our tools and relationships to bear on that possibility.
Tim Cynova:
Gail from like a how standpoint, what does that look like practically? What things have you found in your previous work that you've been doing with all the cohorts and all the different programs to be useful to people right now, to be able to do that?
Gail Crider:
For us internally, we're using a tool, we're using the 30 days tool, that rolls forward that talks about priorities, right? And we've restructured our meetings so that there's a level of tactical, just figuring out how we're moving forward. And then there's tactical-practical, and then there's a level of strategy. So we have like a kind of a dreaming meetings that we host together. And that's the way we're starting to structure conversations, too, with our alumni and with the field, is that there's a need for practical. And if we get through that and we also can make connections, I need this, I have this, we can connect the two. That's helpful. And then we start to talk about, well, so what does the horizon look like? We know what the media is looking like. We know maybe what the intermediate is looking like, and then how might we think about. We facilitate conversations that initially are just about thinking a little bit more longterm when people are ready and again, can't do it until you're ready.
Tim Cynova:
Talking about making connections. One of the, I think it was the inaugural Creative Community Fellows Program, I was a mentor. Tomorrow's guest, Kristina Newman-Scott, was a participant. I was there for something that I call luck circles. I don't know if that's actually the term for them.
Gail Crider:
It is.
Tim Cynova:
And it's for those who aren't familiar with the term.
Lauren Ruffin:
Yeah. I'm like, "What is a luck circle?" This sounds amazing.
Tim Cynova:
I was deeply skeptical and I'll let me tell you this story. So you put together like five or six people, and part of the idea is that we all have networks and some of us, our networks overlap pretty solidly. Others, the Venn diagram, if you will, it doesn't overlap very much. So we have different people in our networks and the luck circle is you just put something that you need or want or a question into the circle. And the circle sort of comes back with things. And at the time, I was looking to see the Zappos employee handbook, very Tim Cynova thing. But at the time, Zappos had a graphic novel for their employee handbook and I was fascinated by it. And I'm like, all right, so I'm just going to mention it. And I'm like, yeah, we'll see what happens. And someone's like, "Yeah, so my nephew just got a job there. Let me text him and see if it's possible to see."
Tim Cynova:
I'm like, "Wow, that's cool." And then the next person gets up and says, "Yeah, so I'm getting married in the fall", and I might be getting some of the details wrong here. But, "I'm getting married in the fall and my fiancé and I are looking for a beach location for our honeymoon. We're getting married in Europe. Does anyone have a place where we could go?" And I'm like, "Well this is pretty far fetched", like nothing's going to happen with this one. And someone was like, "Would you consider going to Egypt?" And they're like, "Yeah, sure." He's like, "Well, my cousin has a place. Let me just get in touch with them." And I'm like, "What the", and my mind just exploded at that.
Tim Cynova:
And then you go around this circle, you're like, there's no way that anything's going to happen here. And then you just start to see the group working and it's like, well, have you considered this and let's do that. And it was every time I've done it as part of that program, something comes up and I'm like, "No, there's no way that that's going to be solved in this or addressed here." And it's just a magical experience every time that just amazes me. And I'm so thankful for being there for that experience because I need some of those things in life, I think, to counter my deep skepticism sometimes.
Lauren Ruffin:
Skepticism.
Tim Cynova:
Yeah.
Lauren Ruffin:
Yeah. I do love that Tim is a total skeptic.
Gail Crider:
It's a good thing.
Lauren Ruffin:
Yeah.
Gail Crider:
To be questioning.
Lauren Ruffin:
Yeah. I mean even in an organization that's gone remote, Tim was like one of our last holdouts, as he led the thing. And we were talking to one of our guests and I was fairly certain that Tim would be like if it wasn't for a broken ankle and a pandemic, like Tim would say at the Fractured Atlas office.
Tim Cynova:
And an expired lease on our office. I just keep showing up with the next people coming.
Lauren Ruffin:
Until they kick you out, yeah.
Tim Cynova:
Yeah, yeah.
Lauren Ruffin:
Yeah.
Tim Cynova:
Well Gail, did I get the luck circle right? Or is there something I missed in the description that you'd like participants to take away?
Gail Crider:
It's based on the idea of the science of luck. Richard Wiseman, I believe it was, in the UK, who figured out that the luck is more of a science than we'd imagine. And really how people get lucky is to, which could really be taken, is to ask for what they need and to ask outside their networks, the normal networks. So we are actually, that's one of the things that's moving into the online programming now and trying to make connections, is we'll be doing some virtual luck circles.
Tim Cynova:
Nice.
Lauren Ruffin:
Yeah, I think that's brilliant. I do a fair amount of like sort of working people to build their fundraising shops. And so many people are so uncomfortable asking for one, really understanding everything they need or everything that could be helpful to advance whatever they're trying to do. But then just asking for it. And I think just creating the space for people to just explicitly say this is a space for you to ask for things can be really powerful. So that's really cool.
Gail Crider:
And you can imagine even now, more in this time, some people again have more time and some have less. And so there could be some space where people feel more productive to be able to be part of the luck circles.
Tim Cynova:
I think there's also something there too with the conversations that we've been having around, what does this become? How do we, as a community, adapt, change? What resources exist outside of the cultural sector that would be quite useful for the cultural sector, but because we're the cultural sector, you don't think it applies? And I think looking at these overlapping Venn diagrams and seeing where resources are, where help is and where people have solved the problem, if you will in some cases, how can this be a part of the conversation and be a part of creating the world that we want to live in, where more people can thrive, where everyone can thrive hopefully. I think that's a useful framework to think about.
Gail Crider:
We're working on a decision tree now. I don't know that it will work out the way we'd imagined, but the thought around it was to create, it's almost an empathy tool. In the pandemic, some people have more time, some people have less time, some people are overwhelmed with screen time, but need more social time. So there's a lot of kind of branches to the tree. And if we can potentially outline the tree, that people can populate it. So a leadership team or a community, it might be useful in building empathy about well, who's going through what at what time, and what might be great resources for them at that point.
Lauren Ruffin:
I do think this time has been, one of the cool things has been just seeing people be really explicit about what they need, in a way that like, I actually can't talk on Zoom anymore. Or whatever the thing is, it's forcing us to really be clear with our colleagues where we can sometimes stay in that polite zone and being able to say no. Like I'm having people say no to things that are usually kind of yes people. But that decision tree kind of reminds me of our personal handbook or our user manuals, Tim.
Tim Cynova:
Yeah, and we've been iterating on it on different teams in the organization. But those who are unfamiliar, the idea is there are several questions that people would answer about, when you do your best work, when you do your writing work, or what are your pet peeves or what do you really value in teamwork? And it's a way, I think increasingly and importantly, for those who have never worked together in 3D, to share, we each have this. And then you can share it with Lauren, and Lauren can read mine, I can read hers and you can understand, oh right, Lauren doesn't want anyone to talk to her before 10:00 AM her time, or 8:00 AM, whatever it might be. Or the best way to get something done is to use Slack versus Zoom or email.
Tim Cynova:
And I think it's not a perfect tool, but I think, be explicit, it fills in some of the gaps that you might learn about people over time and when you work in an office with them, just over here and you learn those things. And I think an explicit tool that people can have to sort of speed up that learning process is useful, especially as we hire people at Fractured Atlas, who we might not meet in person for a year. And how might we fill in those gaps in different ways. So yeah, the user manual exists in a lot of different formats.
Gail Crider:
And we've used, actually Tim, some of your questions over the years too when we hire and try and culturate people. It's the way because the culture doesn't necessarily, people adapt to a culture, but also they change the culture. And so it's really helped us be more, I think explicit about that. I think you're right, the architecture of a culture and the way people work when you have a physical space versus when you don't, big change.
Tim Cynova:
Well, and one of our previous guests was saying, even when you're interviewing people, if you're interviewing for a role and you think it's in person, you might be asking different questions than you would if it's an entirely virtual role. And as candidates, we would be weighing different things about, can I work that way? Can I not work that way? And I think what a lot of us are dealing with is like, all of a sudden, the chips have just been thrown up and there's a lot of moving pieces that people are finding out that it might not be what they thought. Plus, as you've mentioned earlier, just life is happening and uncertainty and other commitments. And how when life and work all of a sudden, sometimes seem one in the same, it makes that even more challenging.
Gail Crider:
Also what's important to know about NAS is we are very privileged. There are no furloughs, there are no layoffs. We can keep the staff team whole for a number of months and we're stepping out of the funding stream. We don't need it as much as others. And so it feels most appropriate, our team felt, to step back in this time.
Tim Cynova:
Gail, you were instrumental in the NAS transition from the National Arts Stabilization Fund to National Arts Strategies. You've been a part of a lot of different collaborations. Thinking to the future, where it's likely organizations are going to be exploring acquisitions, mergers, collaborations, certainly transformations and change, what do you think is important for leaders to keep in mind as they're going through this with their teams and organizations?
Gail Crider:
There are quite a few frameworks out there to think about the give and get, the way you actually collaborate. There's also frameworks around thinking about the difference in cultures of organizations, if it's established organizations that are collaborating. But one of the things I find that I have to keep relearning, in a way, as a leader in part of the collaboration, is the clarity of roles, which is incredibly important. The passion for the horizon. What the definition of that horizon and what you're all working towards, is the first thing. Clarity of roles is probably second. But the fact that there'll be times where it does get messy and times where your emotions will come into play, or you'll react in a way that you might react inside of your organization, but not with the collaborative. And so having that recognition about what's appropriate behaviors, at what point, and the generosity of spirit, I think it takes to be in a collaborative, has been really a wonderful experience for us at NAS and certainly for me personally and the collaborations I've been part of.
Lauren Ruffin:
One of the things I've been thinking about, well as a student of politics for the last, since Trump was elected really, but has been this struggle between federal regulations and how States are behaving. And we're seeing so many States behave like their own countries. And yesterday, I was reading that like all the States in the Western part of the U.S. have sort of banded together to say like, we're going to open up when we're ready to open up, and not when the federal government says. This is going to be like the next thing I'm going to be watching, like it's a tabloid show, just totally into it. Like, who's going to win.
Lauren Ruffin:
But from the cultural sector, it strikes me that there's going to be a point in time when leaders are going to have to figure out when their organizations get back to normal, like whatever normal is. There's going to be this like States say we can go out and hang out again. And then you're going to have staff members who might be immunocompromised or just not comfortable being out. Do you have any sort of thoughts for leaders? As we try to navigate, we're going to be getting all of these different sorts of directives. Can you talk a little bit about what you're thinking about or have started thinking about how NAS gets back to life as normal, whatever normal is going to be?
Gail Crider:
Well that's the question, right? We could hazard a guess and it's going to be messy, economically and structurally. And as we've touched on, and I've heard you speak with others on the show, I think it's really, there's a powerful opportunity inside of this. Now, how we structure the process to get there is an interesting question. But the powerful opportunity is to imagine a future and a roadmap. And when I say a roadmap, it's not a single one because a lot of people will have different paths to getting there. But towards a more equitable future, a more equitable structures for people and planet. And that the positive future we know is possible. And so I think it's that interesting coordination, if you will, like State and federal in some ways it's not happened. But my idea doesn't have to match your idea, but that we hold similar values and are aiming towards similar things and are in communication.
Gail Crider:
So if you think about network theory as potentially being useful in conversations, linking ideas together. Not as best practice necessarily, but more as information on the directions that a group of people or community are moving towards. We've heard from any number of our alumni that they feel like the change will happen geographically specific, locally first, and then have kind of a ripple effect of some sort. So this is something we're turning our energies to now, is to how to stand with others because we know, like Fractured Atlas and several others, you're thinking about what could be the future. How might we create these spaces for people to be creative and practical?
Tim Cynova:
Gail, as we pivot to our final question, I just wanted to highlight a comment from one of our viewers. Thanks Gail. Such wise and generous ideas you have shared with us today. Totally agree. As land the plane. What are your parting thoughts for us?
Gail Crider:
I so appreciate the space for this conversation and the two of you for organizing this. Thank you. I think in this moment in time, it's important that we be kind to ourselves, and I think that's often difficult in an interesting way. And so just to be kind, to continue to look for possibility and hope and to stay connected and to be brave.
Tim Cynova:
Great. Gail, always wonderful spending time with you.
Lauren Ruffin:
Yeah, this is great.
Tim Cynova:
Thank you so much for being on the show.
Gail Crider:
Thank you both. Great to be here.
Tim Cynova:
Continue the Work. Shouldn't. Suck. LIVE adventure with us on our next episode when we're joined by Kristina Newman-Scott, President of Brooklyn's BRIC. Miss us in the meantime, you can download more Work. Shouldn't. Suck. episodes from your favorite podcasting platform of choice. And re-watch Work. Shouldn't. Suck. LIVE episodes over on workshouldntsuck.co. If you've enjoyed the conversation or just feeling generous today, please consider writing a review on iTunes so that others who might be interested in the topic and join the fun too. Give it a thumbs up or five stars or phone a friend, whatever your podcasting platform of choice offers. If you didn't enjoy this chat, please tell someone about it who you don't like as much. Until next time, thanks for listening.
The podcast is available for free on your favorite podcasting platforms:
Apple Podcasts | Google Podcasts | Spotify | Stitcher | TuneIn | RSS Feed
If you enjoy the show, please leave a review on iTunes to help others discover the podcast.